Dialogue VI: Two questions to debunk freewill?

There’s a great deal of joy to be found when speaking with people who don’t share your views and beliefs, it’s an opportunity to grow and learn and even shape opinions if you’re in the company of honest people, then there are those other conversations, the sort wherein you’re treated to rhetoric, hardheadedness and some sort of vincible ignorance where there’s an intentional refusal to understand what’s being said, this is commonly found whereupon a theist goes to painstaking lengths to explain the difference between objective and subjective morality, only to next be met with: “How dare you say atheists are bad people?!”

For more of such gems there are infidel websites and blogs as like belief delusion, but before anything elsewise here’s something about the writer, in his own words of course.


I am an atheist who lost his faith to reason and personal experience. I am a father of two lovely kids, married to a lovely Christian Catholic devoted woman. Yes, black and white can coexist as long as there is respect and love, which is something abstracted from any belief or religion.

I do not claim absolute truth and not 100% sure that a God does not exist somewhere out there, in fact, I am still searching for evidence, trying to understand the world around me.
Atheism does not mean being bad, awful, non loving, dangerous, wicked, and all these negative descriptions people tag atheists with. Take me as an example, I love my kids and wife, I hate hurting people either physically or verbally, I treat humans equally and do not distinguish between race, colour, religion, skin, or ethnicity.

I love reading the Bible and critics of the Bible. I also love watching documentaries especially astronomy, cosmology and new discoveries in physics which is my BSc degree.”

Mike doesn’t write lengthy explanations of how he comes to conclusions with regards to concepts suchlike predestination, suffering and freewill, rather he chooses to post photos of starving children so to tug at the heartstrings of people who’re more emotional in their decision making, let’s enjoy his well-considered and thought-provoking work hereafter.

amensign.gif~c200 oldschoolcontemporary says: 2014/09/22 at 10:02 AM

Good morning, brother. I hope your ongoing search for Truth is bearing fruit in your life and the lives of those around you. However I’m curious, how would you describe a police sting operation, for example. I ask since it’s an imperfect example of how God can both have his way in a person’s life, as well as preserve our freewill. Since if I (Heaven forbid) pulled up alongside a fine honey someday and said “Hey baby, you working or walking?” I’d be as helpless as a child to blame the police for stealing my freewill when the undercover cop slaps the cuffs on me! I hope this message finds you well.

I yet hope Mike (or perhaps Michael) is well in health and high in spirits, however, although I’m sure this man at heart is a loving father, devoted husband and all around pleasant chap to be around, he has abandoned faith by his own admission for personal reasons, not for careful study of the evidence, neither appears his change owing to some awesome argument which renders the most skilled thinkers silent, instead what he’s experienced appears entirely emotional, nevertheless he tacks reason into the mix so to gather some extra credibility. Nevertheless, if some continue to assume there must be an intellectual dimension to that which he posts, why on earth appeal to celestial teapots and what appears the emotional problem of evil?! In addition, with the intellectual problem of evil being thoroughly jettisoned by serious scholars, why repeat the emotional argument with regards to nature seemingly showing: “no mercy, no sympathy, no empathy, no mind, no purpose, no reason,”? Every philosopher or theologian worthy of the name knows that only in a world infused with suffering would the maximum number of people come to freely accept God into their lives, the increase in church attendance during such awful events as the global recession testifies as evidence to that.

But perhaps the intellectual mettle of the blogger remains hidden within some other aspect of religious studies, if so it’s certainly not found in his inability to distinguish between Christianity and Islam, which is evident in posts suchlike: “If Christians today do not kill you for not accepting their ideas, then it is because the western societies (mainly Christian worlds) moved over and rejected bullshit over reasoning.” Or hereinafter: “People who eradicated the native Americans surely were not Muslims, Jews, Hindu or others… There are no True Christians as much as there are no true Muslims or true (insert your coint here.)” For which I’d advise him to read Why can’t we be friends, posted by myself over three months ago, as being a true anything is reliant upon serving faithfully the core beliefs and doctrines found within the faith, of course such notions are often lost on those who’re happier to view religion as one big mistake, this is the unreasonableness of atheism when seen without the secular, rose-tinted spectacles worn. Furthermore to write something so childlike as “I treat humans equally and do not distinguish between religion.” etc etc is an outright showing of how the writer believes that every religion is essentially the same when push comes to shove, which is both dismissive of faith and an insult to billions worldwide.

Or perhaps there’s intellectual muscle flexed whereupon Mike exhibits his inability to understand the chasmal difference between an illusory morality, suchlike would occur if our moral reckoning was formulated within our own minds, and an objective God-given moral experience, which would be binding and real regardless of what you, I or any one else might believe to the contrary. He happily displays this understanding by way of writing: “Humans have been living on this planet for a long time for us to formulate an opinion and establish morality without any supernatural nonsense.”

Mike enjoys replying to objections, but not mine, Mike enjoys reasoning, just not with regards to God, Mikes an awesome father, husband and person, one whose blessed through children, long life and being of worth and purpose, yet only one of us affirm this, I affirm this, according to Mike however he’s an ape without hair whose dreams, hopes and desires for his loved ones are for naught, they’re doomed to destruction with his physical body within this hostile universe, the same universe which too is doomed to die itself in some lonely, cold death. And if I believed for one second he was correct I wouldn’t waste my own time and energy in correcting him, because if the dead be not raised let us eat and drink, for tomorrow we die, nevertheless, he’s most certainly wrong. Mike, who puts faith in science, faith in family and even faith in the fact that his mind holds the keys to unlocking the rational intelligibility of the universe, puts no faith in the eyewitnesses and biographers to the life of Jesus, nor is his strong faith extended to Biblical prophecy, neither is the historic method (through which the New Testament truly shines) shown that same trust! For whatever emotional reasons modern people have become satisfied in agreeing with the likes of Peter Atkins, who’s published to applause: “I think the rest of the human race ought to realize just how insignificant it is. I mean, we’re just a bit of slime on a planet belonging to one sun.”

Christians say you’re a soul, not only that but they argue powerfully the case, atheists assert you’re slime, soul or slime, it’s up to both you and Mike to decide what sort of world-view you’d sooner leave behind for your children.

― T. C. M

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